What if the most painful moments in life could become the greatest catalysts for growth?
In this deeply moving episode of The Flourishing Edge, Ashish Kothari sits down with Ian Ziskin, President of EXec EXcel Group LLC, author, and leadership thought leader, to explore the powerful connection between loss, learning, and leadership.
Ian shares the personal story that shaped his life from age 13 — losing his father to multiple sclerosis — and how that early experience of grief forged his lifelong commitment to intentional living, compassion, and resilience. Together, Ashish and Ian unpack what it truly means to flourish through adversity, why intentionality (not time) heals wounds, and how leaders can create workplaces where people feel trusted, valued, and alive.
This episode is a masterclass in transforming suffering into strength — and leading with both heart and purpose.
💡 Key Topics & Insights:
The Early Loss That Defined a Leader:
At 13, Ian lost his father to multiple sclerosis — a moment that sparked his lifelong choice to turn lemons into lemonade and lead with empathy and purpose.
The Fork in the Road: Grief or Growth
How an 11-year-old learned to focus on helping others, mastering his emotions, and finding meaning — three timeless principles for navigating hardship.
Intentionality Over Time:
“Time doesn’t heal all wounds — intentionality does.”
Ian shares how conscious reflection, not waiting, transforms loss into wisdom.
Flourishing Beyond Balance:
Ian’s modern definition: “Do what I want, when I want, where I want, with whom I want.”
True flourishing is about reconciling passions, relationships, and purpose — not chasing work-life balance.
Lessons from Sweden: Systems That Support Life
Through time spent with family in Sweden, Ian discovered how public policy and culture can align to prioritize humanity — a stark contrast to the U.S. work model.
The Trust Crisis at Work:
Why only 20% of people are thriving — and how rebuilding trust between leaders and teams is the missing link to organizational flourishing.
→ “Do what you say you’ll do, and treat others with dignity and respect — that’s real trust.”
Rethinking HR and Engagement:
Ian challenges outdated corporate norms:
Stop overcomplicating engagement surveys
Measure fewer things, more often
Hold leaders accountable for culture and well-being, not just performance metrics
Lives Lost and Leadership Found: The Book
Inspired by the loss of his brother and mother within six months, Ian’s latest book compiles stories from leaders who found meaning, courage, and compassion through grief.
The Smoothie Effect 🥤:
A brilliant metaphor for blending life’s contrasting emotions into something nourishing and whole.
Ingredients = People and experiences you choose
Blending = Processing chaos into growth
Intention = The key to turning pain into purpose
A Call to Write Your Own Story
The book includes writing prompts to help readers process their own loss — of a loved one, relationship, or career — and find wisdom through reflection.
💬 Memorable Quotes:
“Time doesn’t heal all wounds — intentionality heals all wounds.” — Ian Ziskin
“We can hold grief, but we don’t have to let grief hold us.” — Ashish Kothari
“Flourishing isn’t balance. It’s reconciliation — between passion, purpose, and the people we love.” — Ian Ziskin
“Trust isn’t doing what makes others happy. It’s doing what you said you would, with honesty and respect.” — Ian Ziskin
👤 About the Guest:
Ian Ziskin is the President of EXec EXcel Group LLC, leadership advisor, and author of Lives Lost and Leadership Found: Life and Leadership Lessons Learned from Lost Loved Ones. With over 40 years of experience as a CHRO, coach, and consultant, Ian’s work bridges strategy, culture, and human potential to help leaders flourish through authenticity and purpose.
🔗 Connect with Ian on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ian-ziskin-bb1504/
If this conversation moved you, share it with someone navigating loss or leading through challenge.
Get your copy of Lives Lost and Leadership Found and try the reflective writing exercise Ian includes at the end of the book.
Then, subscribe to The Flourishing Edge Podcast for weekly inspiration on leading and living with purpose.
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Happiness Squad Website: https://happinesssquad.com/
Ashish Kothari: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashishkothari1/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/happiness-squad
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/myhappinesssquad/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/myhappinesssquad
Transcript
Ashish Kothari:
Welcome to The Flourishing Edge, the podcast where we share weekly tips on making flourishing your competitive edge. I’m Ashish Kothari, your host, and each week we dive deep with flourishing experts, change makers, and executives to explore how we unlock higher performance through science-based interventions.
Let’s step together into the edge of what’s possible and live, work, and lead with more joy, health, love, and meaning.
Ian, I’m so excited to have you on the Happiness Squad podcast, my friend.
Ian Ziskin:
Great to be here, Ashish. It’s wonderful to spend time with you, and thank you for the invitation.
Ashish Kothari:
I can’t wait for our listeners to read your book, Lives Lost and Leadership Found. The book explores how loss can transform us, and I want to begin with a personal turning point. Was there a significant loss that reshaped how you lead or live?
Ian Ziskin:
This story goes back quite a few years and probably shaped me more than anything else as a human being.
When I was about eleven years old, my father was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. It took some time for doctors to identify what it was. Over the next couple of years, his health declined steadily, and he passed away when I was thirteen, just shy of his forty-seventh birthday.
That experience was the most defining moment of my life—both as a human being and in how I began thinking about leadership. It forced me to confront a fork in the road: either allow a traumatic experience to crush me or decide how to turn something devastating into something meaningful.
Even at that age, I remember asking myself, How am I going to respond to this? Can I use it to become stronger and better? I don’t know how successful I’ve been over the last sixty-plus years, but I remember very intentionally choosing to try.
Ashish Kothari:
You were so young. We’re just becoming ourselves at that age.
I’m curious—take us back to that moment. You didn’t have the language of a “fork in the road” yet, but what allowed you to choose a different path?
Ian Ziskin:
The clearest memory I have is thinking about my mother and my younger brother. My brother was four and a half years younger than me, and my mother had endured years of caring for my father.
I remember thinking, The last thing I want to do is create more problems for them. So I focused on taking responsibility for myself—being a good student, being supportive, being a decent human being.
I also made a conscious decision not to spend time feeling sorry for myself. That wouldn’t change anything. The only thing I could control was my reaction.
I tried to take something negative and learn from it, to grow, to be better. Even at that young age, I remember being intentional about it. That lesson—intentionality—has stayed with me my entire life.
Ashish Kothari:
What you’re describing is profound. Even as a child, you oriented toward others, practiced emotional mastery, and created meaning from suffering.
Victor Frankl talks about meaning as a response to suffering, and I hear that deeply in your story. I wish I’d had your wisdom at thirteen.
Ian Ziskin:
You have me as a friend now.
Ashish Kothari:
And I’m grateful for that. From everything I’ve seen—the communities you’ve built, the way you show up—I believe your life has honored that early intention.
So let’s fast-forward. You’ve spent decades advising leaders, leading HR functions, writing, teaching. How has your understanding of flourishing evolved? What does flourishing mean to you today?
Ian Ziskin:
At this stage of my life, flourishing means being able to do what I want, when I want, where I want, with whom I want.
That doesn’t mean balance in a traditional sense. It means reconciling competing priorities—my own well-being, the people I love, and meaningful work.
Earlier in my life, flourishing meant survival and responsibility. Later, it meant passion and contribution. Today, it’s about alignment—doing work I love, being good at it, contributing to society, and being present for family and friends.
If you can reconcile those things—even imperfectly—you’re flourishing.
Ashish Kothari:
I love that framing. I agree—work-life balance is an illusion. Life is integrated. Work is part of life, not separate from it.
You’ve spent time in Sweden through your family. How has that shaped your view of integration?
Ian Ziskin:
Sweden was eye-opening for me. There’s a strong societal belief that people work to live, not live to work. More importantly, public policy actually reinforces that value.
In many places, including the U.S., we say family and well-being matter—but our laws and workplace practices don’t always reflect that. While we can’t control public policy individually, we can control our priorities and how we spend our time.
Ashish Kothari:
That alignment between values and systems matters so much.
Let me shift gears. Only about 20% of people are thriving at work today. Many HR professionals enter the field wanting to help people, yet workplaces remain deeply broken.
From your perspective, what’s going wrong?
Ian Ziskin:
It’s complex, but I’ll simplify.
At the individual level, the most important factor is trust. Do leaders trust employees? Do employees trust leaders?
Take remote work. The debate isn’t really about productivity—it’s about trust. Do I trust you if I can’t see you?
Until organizations address that fundamental issue, flourishing will remain limited.
Systemically, there’s a misalignment between stated values and actual practices. We say culture matters, but we don’t measure it well. We hold leaders accountable for financial results, but rarely for trust, dignity, or well-being.
That imbalance has to change.
Ashish Kothari:
Yes. And trust doesn’t mean softness.
Ian Ziskin:
Exactly. Trust means clarity, accountability, honesty, and dignity. It means doing what you say you’ll do, giving direct feedback, and holding people to expectations—respectfully.
That’s very different from simply trying to make people happy.
Ashish Kothari:
I’m reminded of Amy Edmondson’s work: psychological safety isn’t the absence of conflict—it’s the ability to engage conflict productively.
Why do we measure machines constantly but assess human experience once a year?
Ian Ziskin:
We confuse more data with better insight.
Engagement surveys became over-engineered—80 questions, six months of analysis, little action. Instead, we should measure a few meaningful things frequently, act quickly, and hold leaders accountable.
Simplify what matters. Increase accountability. That’s how improvement happens.
Ashish Kothari:
That resonates deeply with our work.
Let’s return to your book. Lives Lost and Leadership Found isn’t just your story—it’s a collective one. What inspired you to write it?
Ian Ziskin:
In:Those losses were jarring. But once again, I asked myself, What can I learn from this?
I realized I wasn’t alone—everyone experiences loss. I reached out to people in my network, and many had stories they’d never been asked to tell. Writing became cathartic. It honored loved ones.
The book became a collection of life and leadership lessons learned from loss.
Ashish Kothari:
That shared humanity is powerful.
You also introduce the “Smoothie Effect.” What is that?
Ian Ziskin:
It’s an analogy for grief.
A smoothie blends many ingredients—some you wouldn’t eat alone. Loss is similar. You process conflicting emotions, chaos, waves of feeling.
The key is intentionality. Time alone doesn’t heal wounds—intentionality does.
How you choose to work through loss determines what you become on the other side.
Ashish Kothari:
That’s such a powerful insight.
Ian Ziskin:
Intentionality heals wounds—not time alone.
Ashish Kothari:
Ian, thank you for this conversation, your friendship, and your work. Your book is a gift.
Ian Ziskin:
Thank you, Ashish. It’s been wonderful to be with you.
