Episode 147: Human Flourishing at Work – Building a Life of Service and Self-Care with Dr. Tenzin Dadul

Ashish Kothari:

Tenzin, I am so excited, my friend, to have you on our Happiness Squad podcast. Thank you for joining us from Michigan.

Tenzin Dadul:

Thank you, Ashish, for having me. It’s always nice to talk to you and also to watch your TEDx. It is very helpful for everybody in the business community.

Ashish Kothari:

Thank you. I was taken by you, Tenzin. It’s almost a year and a half since we met at the Center for Positive Organization Scholarship, and I was just so taken by your story—where you started, where you are, and the impact you’re making in the world.

You are, for me, and hopefully as our listeners get to know you, an inspiration. You are a reminder to always believe in the human spirit and that anyone, from anywhere, if they put in the time and do it with the good of others in their heart, can have so much impact.

You, to me, are a testament to that. I’ll let my listeners decide for themselves, but I think what they’ll find is that I’m not overselling you—I’m only underselling you for the impact you’ve had.

So, share a little bit, Tenzin. Tell us about your early life. What was it like growing up, and how did that shape your values and outlook on flourishing?

Tenzin Dadul:

First of all, thank you. I think you really articulated everything we do in our life. You are an inspiration to many of us, and thank you for your outstanding coaching and teachings at the Center for Positive Organization at Michigan Ross. It was very valuable, at least for me.

I’m a Tibetan American, and I grew up in the refugee camps of the Dalai Lama. You don’t have much care when you’re young, so I’m very grateful for that, because there were more than 10,000 or 15,000 kids in those refugee camps. We received food, shelter, and clothing from the Dalai Lama and good people around the world.

After that, I studied a little bit here and there in school, but my mind was more towards fun—playing soccer, going out, having fun. Initially, I did okay, but later on I didn’t do well, and I basically got kicked out from school. That’s when it hit me—what am I going to do? At that time, I became more or less like a homeless person.

I tried to figure that out. I started learning cooking, because I didn’t know anything else to do. A little bit of cooking, a little bit of dishwashing here and there. I’m very grateful because most kids from that area go through that journey. What’s happening now in the world, it was similar for us then. Sometimes it’s the West, sometimes the Middle East—everywhere, the world takes a turn.

I’m very grateful to all my teachers, my mentors, and particularly to the Dalai Lama for giving me both modern education and traditional education in a very beautiful combination.

Ashish Kothari:

Wow. So take us forward. How does a Tibetan refugee who was kicked out of school, started washing dishes and cooking, go on to become a DDS, an MDS in medicine and radiology, earn an MS, complete a residency at UNC Chapel Hill, get a PhD in leadership from Andrews University, a specialization from Harvard, and just recently completed a degree where Pott and Quant gave you an award as one of the top students with impact at Michigan Ross?

Tell me about the steps in that journey. How did you go from being kicked out of school for not doing well to having an alphabet of degrees after your name?

Tenzin Dadul:

Yes, Ashish. That’s very interesting how you said it, in such an eloquent and fun way. When the school kicked me out, I took full accountability because I didn’t study. I failed high school.

After that, I went to a place called Rishikesh, the land of Saints, a beautiful place. That’s where I started my career peeling onions, chopping, and washing dishes. While I was doing that, after almost two years, I met a couple from Colorado. The gentleman said, “Hey son, why are you wasting your life here? Why don’t you do something?”

That really hit me. It felt like the universe sent that person to remind me of my potential. I started doing a little bit of study after work. My work started at 4 p.m. and went until 10 or 11 at night because it was a spiritual tourist zone. At night I used to study, during the day I slept.

I went back to the school, it is a great school, and asked how I could retake the exam since I had failed high school. They said I had to fill out a form, but they couldn’t help me because it had been over one or two years since I failed. But they gave me a certificate saying I had studied there before, and with that I could apply to take the exam in New Delhi or another city.

I didn’t know how to do this, but some of my friends helped. I sent the application, and eventually I received an exam card. I was very thankful to the energy, to God, goddesses, the Dalai Lama, and my teachers.

I didn’t have much money at that time, but I knew I had to study. I had failed in physics and chemistry, so I got a book—a study guide—and started preparing.

Tenzin Dadul:

 In my pocket there was only maybe 50 bucks, and all the guides were like 400, 700, 800. I went to a shopkeeper and asked him for the cheapest one, the easiest and cheapest one. He said, “That’s a difficult question.” He handed me some pages with a book. I didn’t know what was inside, so I just memorized everything. I basically mocked up everything from top to bottom.

I prayed and went into a meditation zone for about two months. I did everything I could and gave the exam. My friends told me not to take it because no one had ever passed. They said, “If you pass, you can do something else. If not, don’t waste your time.” I said, let me try. After a few months, the results came. Wow—I passed. I couldn’t believe it.

I thought I might do okay, but I was scared of physics. Not only did I pass physics, I was one of the toppers in the school, even though I had failed and retaken it. That was amazing and inspiring for me. Then I didn’t know what to do. That was a turning point because now I couldn’t just go back to doing dishes. I had to think about my life.

We Tibetans really believe in Oracle and mantra. I went to my teacher, Psychia Boucher, and did an Oracle with him. I had just a few bucks in my pocket, and I gave it to him out of gratitude. The moment he did the ritual, he shook his head and then put his index finger on his tooth. I didn’t understand, but later I asked people and figured out he wanted to tell me to start my career in dentistry and then move forward from there.

I applied to many schools, but everyone rejected me because of my history and credentials. Fortunately, one school in Madras, now called Chennai, accepted me. Looking back, I think it was really an energy connection, a happiness connection, because the school’s name was Balaji, a God-energy name. That school accepted me.

I studied, made friends, and I’m grateful to all my Indian friends and especially my teachers. They taught me well, and I had very good teachers. After that, I never looked back. I polished my confidence, my communication skills, and started talking to people more.

Later, I got into Saveetha Medical College, which is now considered one of the best in the country. Before it used to be AIIMS, but now they talk about AIIMS and Saveetha together. Saveetha gave me a really good global exposure and education. One of my best teachers, Dr. Jan Sunam, who has since passed away, was a great inspiration.

After finishing, many of my friends told me to go to Australia and make a lot of money. I said no. I wanted to go back to my community that gave me education when I was young. I went back to Tibetan Children’s Village, a school, and started seeing patients for free. I also worked at monasteries, giving pro bono treatment. Because of my background in dentistry, medicine, and radiology, I had good tools.

I never used these skills just for business. I wanted to pay it forward and help people like me, from where I came from. I worked closely with the Dalai Lama and with key organizations. Then I realized I couldn’t do it alone, so I started a small foundation called Cancer Medical Dental Organization with a friend. It has now grown to over 600 members around the world. Every year we do free cancer, medical, and dental treatment.

We’ve integrated education, psychology, and business into the work. One of the main reasons I did an MBA was because I didn’t understand business. I realized I had to learn the language of business—accounting, finance, and especially leadership. That gave me perspective on how business can be used for good.

Later, because I did research on a cancer called submucous fibrosis, I worked at the University of Minnesota as an assistant professor. Then I went to the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, and did my radiology residency. That was to American standards, and it turned out very well. It opened the American door for me. Everyone wanted a piece of me, but I decided to choose Michigan and the University of Detroit Mercy, where I could help people and learn a lot.

In between, while working, I was also getting bored, so I decided to do a PhD in leadership. That helped me appreciate what business, human communication, and trust are about. That’s the story. Then I came to Michigan, polished the skills I needed to learn, and met you there, Ashish. I’m very grateful for that.

Ashish Kothari:

My friend, what’s amazing about that story is there are several elements that are great sources of inspiration. Number one: humble beginnings. Number two: even if you fail, you’re not a failure—you can begin again. You exemplified that. Today, that kid who was cutting onions is doing such amazing work.

You are the head of a department, you’re running a not-for-profit that’s making a difference. You are a model of the most important skill in our world right now: a continuous mindset of learning and growth. Not letting a degree define you, but continuing to learn.

What’s beautiful is not just your technical growth, but your growth in human skills—transforming systems, getting more out of people. And all of that is fueled by purpose, humility, gratitude, and community.

In our model of the sunflower, all of these practices show up, and you’re a living embodiment of what happens when we grow consciously, align in service, cultivate gratitude and community, and focus on wellbeing. Anything is possible.

I want to talk a little about healthcare as a universal right. The not-for-profit you run offers free cancer, medical, and dental care to almost 150,000 underserved individuals. Can you share some stories or experiences from that that really stand out for you?

Tenzin Dadul:

 Thank you, Ashish. That’s a very deep and meaningful question. First of all, before I answer, I want to give credit to all my team members who have been with me for the last 12–13 years. Because of them, we’ve been able to achieve this impact and are now going further.

The background is that when we were young, we had little or no access to medical care. Many young kids died in the refugee camps. I saw moms and dads grieving, and it wasn’t just a personal loss—it was a loss for the whole community.

Ashish Kothari:

 Absolutely.

Tenzin Dadul:

I started very small, in monasteries and small refugee schools like Dalai Lama schools. Our team became strong, and we began going to neighboring places like Nepal and Mustang. In the end, we realized healthcare is a right for everybody. Some of the best physicians in the world join us, and they treat patients happily. I learned a lot from my team members.

Now we continue to grow in this area. I realize it’s not just about healthcare, but also disease prevention. We work on educating people about prevention and inspiring them. When I go back to the school where I once failed, they love it because, as you said, if a kid like me can do these things, then there are possibilities for everyone.

That’s the background of how healthcare and free cancer treatment came into play.

Ashish Kothari:

Mm-hmm. Beautiful. You’ve also had a deep passion for mentoring. You’ve mentored over 400 medical and undergraduate students from underserved communities. Talk to me about how you approach mentorship, why you give your time so selflessly, and what that means for you.

Tenzin Dadul:

Ashish, this is very deep. It really goes into my DNA. As a Buddhist and a practicing Dharma practitioner, we really believe in teachers—good teachers. We believe that the teacher is a guiding light that can open unlimited doors. Whether it is in Asia, America, Europe, or anywhere, a teacher is a teacher.

I got this privilege to do that. I reflected back about 15 years ago and thought my life is going in a better direction. I realized it is all because of my wonderful teachers. Some beat the hell out of me, some gave me sweets, and some taught me in a nice way. I thought it is my responsibility to pay it forward to my colleagues or students or anybody, because if you educate one person, it can change generations.

We never look at education as a job or just to live a life. We look at education as a very simple thing, like a golden ticket—like going to the movie theater to get that movie. I can watch that movie. It really changed me, and that’s where all my curiosity developed. I’m thankful.

I learned a lot from my mentees too. Now they are all around the world, particularly here—many of them are in Michigan, in Harvard, everywhere. They’re doing great in their careers. We meet, we talk, and many of them pay forward how we do it. I was actually learning things.

Your question is powerful because mentorship and coaching is good, but it’s kind of like more of a business here. I was looking back and thinking, if we can do this and help people, young kids can really make a difference in their personal life and also in the community around them or around the world—where they go or where they live.

Ashish Kothari:

I’ve benefited my whole life from sponsors and mentors and my teachers, starting with my mother and my father being the first teachers. I never say no to somebody who says, “Hey, can you help me?” or “Can you get on the call?” because so many have helped me in my life.

In our busyness, so few actually mentor. As you said, it’s a golden ticket. When you are giving your time, you’re not just changing a life—you’re giving a ticket. You’re affecting generations.

There are many people right now who want eternal life, researching all kinds of things to prolong life. If you want to prolong life, you affect a lot of lives because you live in them. You live in their memories and their kids’ memories because you helped uplift somebody. That is a lot cheaper.

Tenzin Dadul:

 Yes.

Ashish Kothari:

 And longer sustaining as a way to increase your impact on the world than trying to live 10 years more. I’m talking about the 90-plus, all the people who are researching 8,000 different things I’m going to do to myself to just stay young, right?

Tenzin Dadul:

Yes. Very beautifully articulated. I think you nailed it here. Exactly, in that way.

Ashish Kothari:

So look, both as a student and a practitioner of leadership who’s done his PhD and is involved with the Center, I want to talk about flourishing—what it means to you—and specifically your perspective on why doctors and nurses and those who are trying to help the whole world get well are suffering from burnout at unprecedented levels. Talk first about what flourishing means to you, and then reflect a little on why those who are supposed to help us are not able to help themselves.

Tenzin Dadul:

Particularly for me, flourishing means how we can make the world a better place. That means how we can help our collaborators, our people around—in business terms, stakeholders—everybody, and also really try to first go back to the identity.

For me, what really helped me was I grew up with nothing, so I’m very happy because now I have a lot of things to offer and help. The more I help people, whether in terms of mentorship or healthcare or anything in a fine way, it really helps. That means flourishing.

I would say flourishing for me is because of the school where I grew up. I’m thankful to that school. The motto is “others before self.” Now when I look back, it is so nice because it really helps others in that way. That is flourishing.

My thought on burnout is it’s really practical and very true what you said about the burnout of healthcare professionals. Many are switching careers. They’re moving into consulting, finance.

Yesterday a friend said, “Hey, Tenzin, you are so smart. You are going more into business.” I said that’s different for me. I’m trying to learn the business and make my things bigger. He said, “I’m really burned out.”

I said “I can help you; we can work together.” He’s amazing—over 65—and has a lot to offer. Amazing experience. When these great practitioners leave healthcare, it is such a big loss all over the country.

For me, what has really helped is I don’t differentiate between education or diplomas or degrees or personal hygiene or wellbeing. I believe in my identity. I’m a Dharma practitioner, so I try to stay happy first. Then I will help people more.

Now I’m pretty confident because I learn things here and there, so I can talk to people: we did that PhD, but there are things we don’t know. There are many things we don’t know; that’s why we do research. That gave me self-confidence to not just talk, but walk the talk in that line.

It’s a big problem. It was already there before. After the pandemic, it hit even more. Now people are leaving left and right. There are many—I cannot name the hospitals—three big hospitals in Michigan had to either shut down or merge with bigger hospitals.

Ashish Kothari:

So why do you think—what is the root cause, Tenzin? What is behind the burnout epidemic?

Tenzin Dadul:

They take care of people so much, but they never update themselves. I’m not blaming them; I’m talking about myself. I take accountability for that. The moment I was cutting onions, I realized if I have to stop doing this, then I have to invest in myself. I have to work on myself.

Now I say the same thing to my friends: you cannot blame the system. You cannot blame the government or the system or anything. You better work on yourself so you can bring out a lot of possibilities. That is my philosophy, but I respect everybody’s perspective.

Some people have a blame game—this is not good, that is not good. If I don’t do well, if I’m getting burned out, there is something wrong with me. If I have to blame somebody, I would say the way you are educated in life.

There are two kinds of education. One is modern education, which gives you bread and butter. One is holistic education, which is your cultural or traditional values, whether we are American or from any parts of the world. We have to pull those tools from each other.

Some people are good only in one area and call themselves expert in that—that’s true. But when you are burned out, then you don’t have other tools. You better go somewhere and learn with the expert.

Now, an expert could be anybody. It could be His Holiness the Dalai Lama. It could be Sadhguru, or it could be Lord Shiva. It could be Jesus Christ. It could be Mother Mary. Or it could be Ali. It could be anybody. They have to look deep in themselves and try to spend at least some time with themselves.

I won’t say the reason is one solid thing. People may have different perspectives. We all grow differently and uniquely and may have different challenges. If I have challenges, I may talk to you, and Ashish may say, “There you go. This is as simple as that. I learned it when I was five years old.” Wow.

Ashish Kothari:

For sure. From all the research that the McKinsey Health Institute has done and that we’ve been doing, what I find is: in workplaces where 20% thrive and 80% struggle, that’s a broken workplace.

As I’m getting older, I’m recognizing the fallacy of a polar world. Buddhist philosophies are about the middle way, the third way—dark and light, good and bad, left and right, the system or me. Systems to blame, I’m to blame.

Nobody needs to be blamed. The answer is the middle. Maybe it’s a mix of both.

Tenzin Dadul:

Yes.

Ashish Kothari:

 Maybe we are so focused on providing value to others that we realize our cup is run old. But if we cultivate awareness, maybe we’ll get closer to knowing when we are running really, really empty and we have to take care of ourselves.

So instead of giving up our Dharma, our mission, our noble work of healing others—because we fall sick—we stop healing others and now say, “Okay, let me go do something else.” If we take care, maybe we increase our longevity, the time spent in the profession. Doing less in the long term allows us to serve more.

So I think there is an element of that. And as people go up in the system, it’s also to think about the third, middle way. If so many people are struggling and they’re not able to get there, how do we create check-in processes in our teams? As leaders, when we run check-ins, maybe we get people to stop and tune into how they’re feeling right now. What’s their level of energy?

And when you realize people are running on empty, how do you address the system? How do you address those things in the system? If we tackle it at a system level, at a job or department or function level as heads, and then at an individual level—we have to recognize we are part of the system that we are blaming.

The system is made by us and shaped by us. There is a fundamental nature of inter-being between humans and the societies we inhabit. It’s not either/or. As Thich Nhat Hanh would say, we can start to unravel this crisis, take the strings apart one by one, and go from just surviving this craziness to thriving.

Tenzin Dadul:

I really like how you articulate it from a structural point of view—how you categorize not just the system and the people, but also the in-between, how we can fix things in between. I think that was very nice.

I would say, having said that, it’s still a tricky question because this problem is going to continue. It’s true. As we discussed before, there is a lot of research going on in this: wellness, wellbeing—there are different terms for it.

Before it was DEI; now it’s turned into people wellness and so many things. I think it’s a great area not just for research, but for how we can integrate Eastern and Western education and bring some tangible solutions from that, even though it’s very fluid. Here we like research and data.

People who have integrated and made a cocktail out of East and West education have done quite well in many parts of the world.

Ashish Kothari:

 Yes. So, look, keeping an eye on time, Tenzin, what are your personal practices while juggling your full-time job, your not-for-profit role, education, and family? What practices keep you grounded? What are you disciplined about integrating into your life to make sure you can continuously fill your cup so you can serve so many others’ cups?

Tenzin Dadul:

That’s a very beautiful question. Earlier I struggled. When I was younger, I juggled here and there. Now I realize there’s a system to it, and I have to make a system for that. I make sure I do only things I’m passionate about.

Even though I’m really good at other things, I don’t do them because I want to focus my energy in the right direction. I do things only which are significant in my life and in other people’s lives. I don’t do any urgent things. If it’s urgent, I don’t do it. I realize it’s already late; I’m not going to do it anymore.

I always look at the impact: if I do this, how will it help others in the next five to ten years or more? I take my work and projects based on that. What really helps me is that every day I do journaling, and I reflect on things that went well. I say, “Good job, Tenzin,” which I never did in my life, and that inspires me.

I don’t work more than four days a week. Those four days I work for work, and the remaining three days I focus mostly on awareness and wellbeing. And being a Buddhist, I do a lot of mantras and chanting. As I get a little older, I realize there is a lot of influence from higher energy, so I try to connect with the universe, whom I believe. It has really helped me.

Before, I was unrealistic. I tried to do many things at one time. Now I prepare ahead to do one thing at a time. If things go well, that’s fine. If they don’t, that’s okay. That’s how I channelize.

Ashish Kothari:

Yeah. Being present, being present, being present—and recognizing your connection to the divine, your connection to the universe—as a source of energy, especially when our life is in service to others.

Tenzin Dadul:

 Yes. Very well said.

Ashish Kothari:

 Right.

Tenzin Dadul:

That’s how I do. Before, if I were to do something, I had to go all the way. Now I’m trying to get the fine balance. I would say I’m getting the balance.

Ashish Kothari:

I also like the rest and recovery. Just before our podcast today, I had a conversation with the CEO of the four-day work week out of South Africa.

She ran the work in South Africa, and it was quite stark—the impact a four-day work week has on stress, productivity, creativity, people’s excitement to show up and do the work, and the kindness they show toward each other. It was quite compelling research and evidence.

You’re doing that. You’re another example of somebody who does that—four days a week—and three days are really for recovery, reset, recharge, service, religion, spirituality.

Thank you for being a role model. Thank you for all the important work. Thank you for so many lives and generations that you are touching, Tenzin. It’s a real joy to know you, and I appreciate you taking the time—Friday evening for you—to share your wisdom and your life journey with so many who are listening right now.

Tenzin Dadul:

Ashish, I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity to share my thoughts in this short time. I really want to thank all my teachers and professors around the world. I got so much education here and there. I think I’m nobody without them.

I want to thank teachers from His Holiness the Dalai Lama, my teachers at Ross, my teachers at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, my teachers in Madras. I’m so grateful that I got this wonderful opportunity. Thank you.

Ashish Kothari:

Thank you, my friend. Be well.

Tenzin Dadul:

 Thank you.