Why Mental Calmness, Not Toughness, Creates Resilient Leaders with Brent Lang

Ashish Kothari: Hi Brent, it's such a pleasure to have you on the Happiness Squad podcast. Thank you for joining us.

Brent Lang: My pleasure, Ashish. I’m really looking forward to the conversation.

Ashish Kothari: To our listeners, I first got to know Brent through some work we were doing with USA Gymnastics, where he serves on the board. I was immediately impressed by his presence and critical thinking.

Brent has a truly remarkable story. He’s one of the few people I’ve met who I’d describe as being on their “third mountain.”

For most people, being an Olympian is the pinnacle of achievement in sports. Brent reached that peak, winning a gold medal as part of the U.S. swim team in the Seoul Olympics.

After his sports career, Brent transitioned into the corporate world and became the CEO of Vocera Communications, where he had a tremendously successful professional career. For many, that would be the top of their professional mountain.

But Brent didn’t stop there. In retirement, he continues to make an impact by serving on multiple boards, including ThriveWorks and USA Gymnastics, among others. He’s using his experience and wisdom to create a better world.

There’s so much we can learn from Brent, and I hope you gain valuable insights from this conversation.

Let’s start with your first mountain, Brent. You won gold for the U.S. swim team—an incredible achievement. What were the key factors that helped you reach that level of excellence? How did you prepare yourself to perform at such a high level?

Brent Lang: Yeah, that’s a great question. I tend to point to two or three different things that kind of came together.

The first is just this idea of persistence or resilience. I was a competitive swimmer for 14 years, swimming 30 to 40 hours a week, and that culminated in one 50-second race. There’s no overnight success.

I like to say that life is a marathon, not a sprint—even though I was a sprinter, life is a marathon, not a sprint. It really takes that daily commitment to something to pay off. There are no shortcuts in life. Being able to deal with the ups and downs of that journey is a really important part of it.

The second thing I’d point to is coaching and mentorship. I had some amazing coaches. My college coach at the University of Michigan, Jon Urbanchek, was truly a huge influence on my life. He taught me a lot about myself and about how I wanted to live my life. He believed in me, and so I believed in myself, and that made all the difference in the world.

I also had very supportive parents. I think growing up in an environment where they made it really clear that their love for me was not tied to my success in the pool was critical. In fact, they were often the ones saying, “Are you sure you don’t want to take a day off? Are you sure you don’t want to dial it down?” Having that support infrastructure of coaches, parents, and friends who would support me regardless of the outcome was really important.

And then the third thing that’s always worked really well for me—and we’ll probably talk more about this as we go forward—is just having a positive outlook. You face lots of setbacks, whether in sports, life, or business, and you have to get through them. By focusing on the positive aspects, you have a much better chance of getting through and being more successful. I’ve always emphasized having a positive outlook.

Ashish Kothari: I love those three points, and they resonate so much with me—all of them. This notion of persistence, resilience, and positive outlook really hits home. I loved how you phrased it: a 50-second race, but it’s the countless hours leading up to it that make it happen.

People often forget about that preparation and the role of coaches. And your emphasis on having a positive outlook really stands out. It’s been a big one for me too, Brent.

We all face setbacks. In those moments, our brains often exaggerate things—like when one thing doesn’t go well, it can feel like the world is ending. But being able to zoom out, see the bigger picture, and orient ourselves toward learning is so powerful. It’s about keeping one foot in front of the other.

It’s such an important lesson, even for entrepreneurs. Edison’s famous quote comes to mind: “I didn’t fail 10,000 times. I just learned 10,000 ways that a light bulb doesn’t work.” It’s about moving forward.

Tell us a story from your Olympic journey—a moment when you hit a low point and learned a key lesson in resilience. A moment where having that positive outlook and the ability to keep going really made a difference.

I was the defending national champion. I had won the 100 freestyle my sophomore year in college. But in the preliminaries during my junior year, I got disqualified for a false start. To this day, I don’t know how it happened, but I got disqualified. At that time, the rule was one false start and you were out.

Suddenly, I went from being the defending champion and the number one seed to not even being able to participate in the event. I remember walking out of the water and crossing the deck back to where my team was sitting.

My coach started walking toward me. Instead of yelling or scolding me—or even reminding me that I’d just cost our team 40 points in the competition—he simply reached out his hand, gave me a big smile, and said, “Don’t worry, buddy. I’m going to have you lead off the 400 freestyle relay. You’ll have another chance to prove to everyone here that you’re still the fastest in the 100 freestyle at this meet.”

I’ll never forget that moment. His ability to allow me to fail with grace and forgiveness, while creating an opportunity for redemption, was incredible. Just a few hours later, I led off that relay with a time that would have won the individual event.

That lesson has stayed with me throughout my life and career—the importance of giving people the opportunity to fail, to fail gracefully, and to learn from the experience. But not have it be the thing that hangs around their neck like an albatross for the rest of their lives.

I’ll always be grateful to my coach for teaching me that. And it’s a lesson I’ve carried forward in everything I do. You’re going to have setbacks but you’re not going to be defined by your setbacks. The opportunity to redeem yourself and move forward is absolutely critical for everyone.

Ashish Kothari: Wow. That story, Brent, reminds me of one of my favorite books. It’s by Aki Hintsa, a surgeon who worked with athletes and founded the Hintsa Performance model.

He shares a story in the book about an incredible world-class runner. At one point, the runner needed surgery on his Achilles tendon, and the outcome of the surgery could have ended his career. Hintsa describes how nervous he was, but the runner reassured him, saying, “Aki, it’s okay. For me, sport and winning don’t define who I am. My purpose is much bigger than this. It’s just running.”

That perspective is so powerful. It’s something I’ve noticed in so many Olympians—they understand that what they do doesn’t define them. Even if things don’t go as planned, they find a way to pick themselves up and move forward.

It’s such a valuable lesson for all of us because so many people fixate on setbacks. They spend too much time stuck in the valley instead of saying, “Okay, let’s go.”

What an amazing coach you had, Brent, and what a wonderful perspective he gave you. I can only imagine how much you were beating yourself up in that moment.

So, tell me this—mindset clearly plays a critical role in sport and in life. Mental toughness, alongside physical preparation, often separates winners from those who don’t quite make it. What are some ways you’ve cultivated that mindset and positive outlook to handle high pressure while staying focused on your goals?

Brent Lang: Yeah, I think it comes down to having fun. You know, just to build on the point we were talking about earlier—if you enjoy the journey and focus less on the destination, you’re in a much better state of mind.

For a lot of people, when they focus only on the destination, they put so much pressure on themselves to achieve the end goal that they end up shooting themselves in the foot. They diminish their performance because they carry the weight of the world on their shoulders when they step up to perform.

But if you figure out a way to enjoy every day—have fun with whatever you’re doing—then the race at the end of the season, or the final destination, becomes a bonus. It’s not the reason you’re doing it. It’s not this overwhelming pressure where you feel like if you don’t achieve the goal, all the time you’ve invested is wasted.

I always tried to focus on enjoying it every day—whether it was the friendships, the social interactions, or the little wins along the way. I also worked on minimizing the disappointment of setbacks and keeping the focus on the process.

It’s not always easy. You mentioned mental toughness, but I’d actually change that concept to mental calmness. Toughness implies fighting against the situation, while calmness means embracing the moment and staying present.

For me, whether it was preparing for an Olympic race or something in my business career, it wasn’t about getting tough or mean or psyched up—it was about calming my mind. Breathing through it, keeping my mind still, and training myself to avoid emotional spikes, whether high or low.

We did a lot of visualization—imagining the positive outcomes we wanted to achieve as part of preparation. Breathing, meditation, and visualization helped me stay ready for the moment, but it all started with enjoying the journey.

My coach had a phrase—kind of an inside swimming term: “You can find lane four on your own.” Lane four is for the number one seed in a swimming final. What he meant was that he didn’t need to hold your hand; if you’d put in the work during the season, you could get there on your own.

He also used to say, “You’ve put the hay in the barn,” meaning the hard work was done, and you just needed to trust yourself. His calmness translated to us as athletes, and because he believed in us, we believed in ourselves.

Ashish Kothari: Wow. There’s so much wisdom in that. I love this idea of joy—enjoying the journey—and how that connects to being present in the moment.

So many of us, whether at work or play, are fixated on the future or stuck in the past. We worry about what’s ahead or beat ourselves up over mistakes. But your point about being fully present—moment to moment—makes so much sense. Only then can you actually enjoy the journey and be aware of what’s happening around you.

This focus on enjoying the present moment, whether it’s a stroke in swimming or a hit on the tennis court, is so powerful. And I love your shift from toughness to calmness. In high-pressure moments, many of us get worked up, but by calming that mental storm and avoiding interference, we can perform at our best.

Brent Lang: That’s such a great example. It ties in with a story from my own experience.

When I made the Olympic team, there was a six-week gap between the trials and the actual Olympics. During that time, there’s a lot going on—you get outfitted with gear, take part in events (like a trip to Disneyland), and participate in training camps. It’s full of pomp and circumstance, and you don’t go home after the trials. You pack your bags ready to head straight to the Olympics.

For me, that six-week period was a mental challenge. I had to figure out how to calm my mind through the training camps, travel, press interviews, and all the hype leading up to the opening ceremonies.

I came up with a mantra: It’s just another race. I repeated that to myself over and over—probably thousands of times during those six weeks. It helped me stay calm and in the moment without obsessing over the fact that I was going to the Olympics.

Even as we marched out onto the deck behind the blocks for the race, I kept repeating, It’s just another race. When I got up on the blocks and dove in, I took my first stroke. Only then did I let my mind say, Oh my God, this is the Olympics!

That timing was key. The adrenaline kicked in at the right moment. In swimming, you want that first stroke to be long and relaxed, not rushed or tense. The calmness I’d cultivated preserved my emotional and physical energy so that when the adrenaline hit, it was a boost rather than a drain.

Sometimes, athletes obsess so much about the event that they mentally and physically exhaust themselves before it even begins. Staying calm was absolutely critical for me to perform at my best.

Ashish Kothari: Absolutely. I love that. In that moment, you exploded at exactly the right time—not too soon, not too late, but right when it mattered. And that was a result of all your practice and mindset.

It’s funny you mention that because I used to coach a lot of MBA students who wanted to join McKinsey. They’d do endless case preps, and I’d always tell them, “Don’t over-prep and peak before your main interview.”

It’s such a common issue, whether with students or in the workplace. People get so focused on the future that when that future becomes the present, they’re not at their best.

Brent, you talked about several techniques—breathing, centering yourself, meditation, visualization. I’ve heard so many athletes talk about the power of visualization as part of their preparation. Can you share what that looked like for you? And how can leaders apply it in their daily lives?

Brent Lang: For me, the key was visualizing how I wanted the race or event to play out—what the ideal scenario would look like if I were watching it on TV and everything went exactly as planned, from start to finish.

Visualizing it over and over reinforces in your mind that this is how it’s going to happen. You almost convince your body that it’s reality.

One technique I used to reinforce this was creating keywords to remind myself of specific elements of the race. I still remember, for my 50 freestyle races, it was pop, snap, blast, finish.

Pop referred to popping up on the surface of the water after diving off the block.

Snap was the snap of my feet hitting the wall on the flip turn.

Blast described the sensation of pushing off the wall.

Finish was the feeling of hitting the final stroke perfectly on the wall.

These words became a shorthand for visualizing the race. I didn’t have to go through the entire sequence in detail—I could just think, pop, snap, blast, finish, and instantly recall exactly how I wanted each part of the race to feel and unfold.

Each race had its own set of keywords depending on what I wanted to reinforce, whether it was technique, pacing, or something else. The repetition of these words allowed me to focus and prepare in a way that was almost automatic.

Visualization also helped me stay more present and tune out distractions. I never heard the crowd or noticed people walking on the deck. All I could focus on were the key components of my race—my feel for the water, my stroke, and the way I wanted to finish.

Ashish Kothari: Wow. Pop, snap, blast, finish. I love it. What’s so fascinating about your visualization is that you weren’t just imagining the end of the race, standing on the podium as the winner. You were visualizing every movement, going through the race step by step.

It reminds me of some research I came across in a book by neuroscientist James Doty called Mind Magic. He explains how visualization can actually rewire our brains. When we close our eyes and go through something in the structured way you described, our brains interpret it as if it’s really happening.

It’s almost like doing real reps in the lab because the brain doesn’t distinguish between what’s real and what’s visualized. Over time, this builds new neural pathways, and the body naturally starts to perform the way you’ve rehearsed. Your description of visualization really echoes that idea.

Brent Lang: Yep.

Ashish Kothari: So let’s switch gears a bit, Brent.

There aren’t many people who can so seamlessly reach the top in one field, finish, and then shift into a professional career and climb to the top again. Plenty of Olympians transition into professional careers and do well, but you reached another peak as the CEO of Vocera.

What lessons from your Olympic journey did you carry into your professional life that helped you reach that peak?

Brent Lang: Yeah, I think the first thing I’d say is that even when I was a swimmer, I never viewed myself as just a swimmer—and that was really critical.

I saw myself as a student-athlete, so transitioning from being an athlete to a businessman felt like a natural progression of the same person. It wasn’t like I had to reinvent myself.

You described it as multiple mountains, but I saw it as one life. The skills I developed were directly transferable, and I wasn’t starting from scratch.

I think one of the things that makes it frightening for athletes to leave the sport and move on to their “second mountain” is the fear that they’re starting from the bottom again. But it’s about figuring out how to translate the muscles you’ve already built into the next phase.

That’s the first thing.

The second thing is the mindset I had as a swimmer: life is a marathon, not a sprint. There are tremendous ups and downs when running a business. At Vocera, we had moments where we could have gone out of business, run out of money, or lost key customers. We had employees leave at critical times.

A friend of mine used to say, “It’s never as good as it seems, and it’s never as bad as it seems.” That perspective—leveling out the peaks and valleys—is really critical.

You can’t let your emotions get carried away, whether you’re at a peak or in a valley, because it’s counterproductive to the overall journey. Staying grounded helps you navigate those moments.

Another key lesson I carried over was the importance of giving people a chance to prove themselves. My college coach gave me that chance when I was a sophomore.

I wasn’t a sprint freestyler growing up—my brother was. I primarily swam butterfly. But my coach gave me the opportunity to lead off a relay in freestyle, and I swam a time that would have placed me higher in sprint freestyle than in the events I’d trained for.

That transition from being a butterflyer to a sprint freestyler ultimately led to me making the Olympic team and competing on the national stage.

I often think, What if my coach hadn’t taken a chance on me? What if he hadn’t encouraged me to stretch outside my comfort zone?

In my business career, I’ve tried to do the same—looking for opportunities to give people a chance to prove something, even if they don’t believe they can do it. When you do that, people appreciate the opportunity, and they often surprise you and themselves. It can have a tremendous impact on their future trajectory.

So I’d say: look for those opportunities and take advantage of them.

Another principle that’s guided me is balance. My dad used to say, “Life is like the individual medley in swimming.”

In the medley, you have to swim all four strokes. You can’t just be good at butterfly, breaststroke, or freestyle—you have to be well-rounded.

As a student-athlete, I embraced that philosophy. You couldn’t just be a swimmer; you had to be a good student, a good friend, and a good family member. You had to be a balanced individual.

As a CEO, this idea of balance has been critical—finding equilibrium between being a CEO, a husband, a dad, and taking care of myself through sleep, exercise, and other practices.

Maintaining that balance helped me navigate the ups and downs, the hills and valleys, of every opportunity. Nothing in life is a straight shot to the top. There will always be setbacks.

The question is, how do you deal with those setbacks? How do you recover?

Having a broad, diverse foundation in your life gives you something to fall back on.

Ashish Kothari: Yeah, you know, how do you build that foundation? That’s where I want to go next.

Brent, what are some of those practices or rituals that are part of your life—things that allow you to have a solid foundation to bounce forward? Because if our foundation is weak, those blows can cripple us, and it takes a long time to recover.

We often talk about making stress an ally and increasing the size of your “battery” through daily habits and nourishment. I’m curious—what are your non-negotiables, the things you consistently do during the day or week to build that strength and foundation?

Brent Lang: It might sound strange, but for me, it starts with sleep. I’ve always believed in the importance of sleep.

Even in high school, I was going to bed at 8:30 or 9:00 at night, which sounds crazy—most kids are out much later—but I was getting up at 5:00 AM for practice. Sleep was essential.

I’ve also always been a good napper. Even as a CEO, I’d occasionally take a nap in my office—just close the door, lay on the floor, and rest for 10 or 15 minutes.

If you’re not well-rested, everything else becomes harder. Your stress levels rise, your ability to stay in the moment suffers, and your reactions to others are negatively impacted. Sleep is so underrated, and for me, it’s the foundation.

The second thing I’d point to is exercise. I still swim three or four times a week. Being in the water is my happy place—it’s where I do my best thinking.

It’s amazing how often I’ve been struggling with a work or relationship issue, gone for a swim, and suddenly the solution comes to me. Being supported in the water helps me get out of my head and be present in the moment.

I’ve also recently added yoga. I’m not great at it—I wouldn’t call myself a yogi—but yoga and lifting weights have helped me maintain flexibility. So, sleep and exercise are the foundation for me.

The third thing I’d emphasize is the importance of the team. In swimming, I saw how being part of a relay or a team with a common goal could elevate your performance.

The relationships you build with your team are a superpower. Ironically, one of the hardest things about transitioning into semi-retirement after selling the business was losing those daily interactions with my management team.

I realized they weren’t just work colleagues—they were some of my closest friends. That social support infrastructure and the power of working toward a common goal together are invaluable.

Finally, for me, it’s about not dwelling on the past. Try not to worry too much about the future or obsess over the past. Staying present in the moment is key. If you can do that, great things will happen.

Those are the daily practices that I rely on to build my foundation.

Ashish Kothari: Yeah, I love those. Are you a meditator, Brent?

Brent Lang: I am, but I wouldn’t say I’m a good meditator. It’s funny—I think I was better at meditation and visualization when I was 20 than I am now.

I did a lot of it for swimming, but I got away from it after I stopped competing. I’ve been trying to reintroduce it into my life. These days, my best form of meditation happens when I’m exercising, which is a slightly different kind of meditation, but it has the same effect.

I’ve also gotten back into breathing exercises—monitoring my breath and focusing on it.

I remember before earnings calls, when I’d feel nervous or my heart was racing, I’d focus on slowing my breath. Just taking that moment to center myself before speaking to investors or analysts made a big difference.

Ashish Kothari: Absolutely. Breathing is such a powerful way to activate the parasympathetic nervous system. It calms the fight-flight-freeze response and brings mental clarity.

I think of it like a tree—storms can come, but if the roots are strong, the tree can hold its ground. Without that strong base, the winds will knock it down.

By the way, I have a couple of recommendations for you, depending on your timing and interest.

First, about a year and a half ago, I did a 10-day Vipassana silent meditation program. These programs are offered all over the country. For 10 days, you meditate 12 hours a day—no talking, no writing, no distractions.

It’s an extreme experience, but it’s a mental cleanse. You gain incredible clarity, and it’s a gift to yourself. If you make it through, you’ll feel so grounded and have amazing breakthroughs.

If that feels too intense, there’s another option called SKY (Sudarshan Kriya Yoga), developed by the Art of Living foundation. Emma Seppälä, one of the top happiness researchers, has validated its effects on PTSD, stress, and anxiety.

SKY is a lighter commitment—three half-day sessions where you learn techniques you can practice on your own. Both programs are powerful and worth considering.

Also, for our listeners, these are great options for building a foundation of mental strength and clarity.

Brent Lang: That sounds fascinating.

Ashish Kothari: Yeah, it’s very powerful. For me, meditation is a non-negotiable—there’s not a day that goes by without me meditating. It helps me cultivate my center, which is especially critical when building a company.

As you can imagine, we’re in the thick of it—there are lots of highs and lows every day. Meditation helps me navigate that and enjoy the journey, rather than getting caught up in chasing the highs and the lows.

I love that you started with sleep, Brent. It’s such an underappreciated superpower in our world. We actually had an episode on sleep about six weeks ago with a sleep neuroscientist.

It’s amazing how often people sacrifice sleep to achieve their goals, even though it’s completely counterproductive. The effects of not sleeping on cognitive performance, long-term health, and emotional regulation are profound. There’s also so much research linking sleep deprivation to rising incivility in the workplace.

So I loved that you emphasized sleep. Just giving ourselves seven-plus hours of sleep and not compromising on it is a big deal.

And your point about team is so true. When people retire or leave active roles, those networks often fray. Cultivating a rich network both at work and beyond is essential. There’s that Harvard study showing that 60% of individual flourishing is tied to the quality of relationships.

I love these four principles you practice, but the reality is, many workplaces don’t actively embrace them. As an Olympian and a CEO, who clearly understands the importance of well-being and building a strong foundation, how did you role model this? What were some ways you influenced your team and organization to prioritize well-being as part of the company’s success?

Brent Lang: That’s a great question, and it’s something that evolved for me over time.

When I first entered the working world, I was still a hyper-competitive, fairly immature person. For me, it was all about winning. But I quickly realized that leading and winning are two very different things.

I had to grow into that realization and raise my emotional intelligence. It wasn’t just about individual performance—it was about empowering the team and learning how to lead people effectively.

The biggest lesson for me was that it all starts with empathy.

Empathy means trying to understand where the other person is coming from. What’s their perspective? What’s in their background or experience that’s driving their emotions or view of a particular problem?

This understanding becomes the foundation for all interactions. From empathy comes trust.

Trust is built by assuming the best intentions of the person you’re interacting with, even when you disagree. Instead of labeling someone or dismissing their views, start by trying to understand why they might see things differently. Maybe they have a different set of facts or experiences than you.

Some of the most interesting conversations I’ve had started with completely opposing perspectives. But by digging into the "why" behind those differences, the dialogue became much richer.

Another important lesson I learned as a leader is the value of authenticity.

I actually struggle with the idea of “charismatic leadership” as the ideal. Leaders like Steve Jobs are often held up as the gold standard, but I think they’re the exception rather than the rule.

In my experience, authentic leadership is far more effective than charismatic leadership.

This means being vulnerable and real—exposing both your strengths and weaknesses. Letting people truly get to know you. It’s about being okay with not having all the answers, not being the most polished speaker, and not pretending to have everything figured out.

That vulnerability often inspires your team to lean in, take ownership, and come up with solutions.

This was a big learning curve for me because I was a shy kid. Before my swimming career, I couldn’t imagine speaking in front of a crowd. Running for student body president or giving a speech in middle school would’ve terrified me.

Through swimming, I was forced to learn how to speak to the press, address teammates, and connect with large groups of people. I’m thankful for that experience, but I’ve come to realize that leadership isn’t about being the perfect public speaker or the most charismatic person in the room.

It’s about being real and connecting with your team, colleagues, and coworkers in a meaningful and authentic way.

Ashish Kothari: Wow. This notion of empathy and perspective—really exploring and listening beyond the words—is so powerful. It takes a lot of humility, emotional regulation, and presence, especially when someone’s perspective is completely counter to yours.

What I love is your invitation to listen, particularly when you have more power in the relationship. When you’re in a position of authority, it’s even more important to create a safe space where others feel comfortable sharing.

Otherwise, they might just hold back and not voice their ideas, which could uncover a blind spot or contain the solution you need.

I’m also with you on vulnerability. We often hear about psychological safety, and people want a “hack” to create it in the workplace. If there’s a hack, it’s this: show your imperfections—what you’re good at and what you’re not.

In today’s world, leaders who believe they need to have all the answers and deliver them from the mountaintop are out of touch. Sure, it might work for visionary exceptions like Steve Jobs or Jeff Bezos, but for most leaders, the power lies in the collective—empathizing, sensing, and discovering solutions together.

When leaders lean into empathy and vulnerability, acknowledging their imperfections and saying, “I’m not perfect, and I don’t expect you to be either,” it creates a powerful fabric of connection and trust.

Thank you, Brent—this has been a super powerful conversation. As we wrap up, what are three pieces of advice you’d give to our listeners? Something practical they can start doing tomorrow without overthinking.

Brent Lang: For me, it all comes down to staying positive. The power of a positive attitude is truly unbelievable.

I used to play this game with my swim coach where I’d challenge myself to come up with two positives for every negative thing he could say. Looking back, I think he was playing along with me, because he was a very positive person himself.

He often reminded me of that challenge and told me it was a superpower—this ability to find two positives for every negative.

I even developed a visual image to remind myself of this mindset. Imagine walking through life with your head up, looking out at the horizon, arms stretched out in front of you, ready to catch a giant beach ball if it happens to fall your way. That’s the optimistic, positive outlook.

The opposite is someone walking with their head down and shoulders slumped. If something good falls from the sky, it might hit them on the back of the head and bounce off without them even noticing.

I always try to keep my head up, arms out, ready to receive.

I’ll be the first to admit that I’ve been incredibly fortunate in my life. Yes, I’ve worked hard and achieved successes, but luck has played a significant role too. For example, the difference between making the Olympic team and not making it was literally hundredths of a second.

Had I not made the team, who knows how my life would have unfolded? Would I have gone to Stanford Business School? Would I have had the same career opportunities? There's so many “what ifs” you can play, but you have to acknowledge the role that luck has.

But when luck presents itself—like when my coach gave me the chance to swim in an event I hadn’t trained for—I leaned into it. I didn’t say, “That’s not my thing” or “What if I fail?” I said, “Let’s give it a shot and see what happens.”

When you approach life with a mindset of “What’s possible?” amazing things can happen.

And the same thing goes for people. If you assume positive intention from other people, it'll improve your relationships with them. If you trust other people and assume that they're trusting you and you trust in their ability, or maybe take a chance on someone who hasn't proven themselves, you just never know they might surprise you.

A lot of my core philosophy and belief has come down to this idea of just keeping an open mind, being positive, and looking for opportunities to surprise yourself and the people around you, and giving other people an opportunity to surprise you and exceed your expectations.

Ashish Kothari: Thank you, Brent. That’s beautiful advice: stay positive, keep your head up, arms open, and smile.

One of my dear friends, Barry Shaw, has an incredible definition of a smile—Seeing Miracles in Life Every day. You can only do that if you’re open and paying attention because what you focus on is what you’ll notice.

Brent, thank you for this amazing conversation. I’m so grateful to have had the chance to meet you, work with you, and learn from your wisdom.

Brent Lang: My pleasure. I really enjoyed the conversation. Best of luck to you as well, Ashish. Thank you.